Íàóòèëóñ, Êèíî, Ïèêíèê, Àãàòà Êðèñòè ãîòèê ðîê?Äà?èëè ÍÅÒ?
Íàóòèëóñ, Êèíî, Ïèêíèê, Àãàòà Êðèñòè ãîòèê ðîê?Äà?èëè ÍÅÒ?
íå äóìàþ...
Íåò. È íèêîãäà íåáûëè.Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Elanesse
Íåò, êîíå÷íî. Ýòî äàæå íå Dark Rock.
Äà. È åùå ðàç äà. Ýòî îòöû ðóññêîãî ãîòèê-ðîêà íàðàâíå ñ òàêèìè ãîòèê-ðîêîâûìè ãðóïïàìè êàê HIM, Tristania, Cradle Of Filth.Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî manyak
Ïèêíèê, Àãàòà Êðèñòè - ïîñò-ïàíê, Êèíî - èñïîëüçîâàëî öåëûé ðÿä ãîòèê-ðîêîâûõ ôèøåê, õîòÿ ÿ áû íå ñòàë èõ ìóçûêó íàçûâàòü ãîòèê-ðîêîì. Íàóòèëóñ - íå äóìàþ, ÷òî ñþäà îòíîñèòñÿ.
Âñåöåëî ñîãëàñåí. Äóìàþ, ÷òî ñåé÷àñ âî ìíîãèõ îöåíêàõ ïðèñóòñòâóåò ïðîñòàÿ íåëþáîâü ê ýòèì ãðóïïà ó ôîðóì÷àí. ß èç âñåãî ñïèñêà ëþáëþ òîëüêî Êèíî, à îñòàëüíîå íåò. Íî íàäî áûòü îáúåêòèâíûì - Àãàòà Êðèñòè ðàííÿÿ - ýòî ïîñò-ïàíê îïðåäåëåííî. Äà è Êèíî ðàííåå òîæå Íàïðèìåð, àëüáîì "Íî÷ü" (1985).Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Tyrant
À âîò ïîçäíåå Êèíî ìîæíî ê ãîò-ðîêó ïðè÷èñëèòü. Ïðàêòè÷åñêè âñÿ "Ãðóïïà êðîâè" ïåðåïîëíåíà ãîò-ðîêîâûõ ìîòèâîâ. Âîêàë Öîÿ â ðàìêàõ ñòèëÿ. Íåëüçÿ óòâåðæäàòü, ñëó÷àéíî ýòî èëè íåò, òàê êàê ó êîðåéöåâ è ñðåäíåàçèàòîâ ãîëîñîâûå ñâÿçêè èìåííî òàê óñòðîåíû, ÷òî ãîò-ðîêîâûé âîêàë ó íèõ ïîëó÷àåòñÿ ñàì-ñîáîé. :) ß äàæå êàê-òî ïðåäñòàâèë ñåáå, êàê Êèíî íà WGT èñïîëíÿþò "Ñïîêîéíóþ íî÷ü". Óâåðåí - ýòî áûë áû ôóððîð. Íà ñëåäóþùèé ôåñòèâàëü íàäî õîäîêàì òóäà âçÿòü "Ãðóïïó êðîâè" ñ ñîáîé, ïîäàðèòü êàêîìó-íèáóäü ëþáèòåëþ ãîò-ðîêà, âçÿòü ó íåãî àäðåñ, à ïîòîì ñïðîñèòü, ïîíðàâèëîñü èëè íåò. :)
Íàóòèëóñ íèêóäà íå ïðè÷èñëþ, íè ê ïîñò-ïàíêó, íè ê ãîò-ðîêó.
Àõóåííî, ÿ óæå ïîëó÷àåöà ñåìü ëåò êàê ñàìûé íàñòîÿùèé òðó ïåðåòðó ãîòÈçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Tyrant
À Àãàòà ðóëèò ïîçäíÿÿ, èáî îíè íà÷èíàÿ ñ "Óðàãàíà" âûðàáîòàëè ñâîé íåïîâòîðèìûé ñòèëü. Ýõ, æàëêî Ñàøó Êîçëîâà![]()
Ìîå ñóáúåêòèâíîå íåãîòè÷åñêîå ìíåíèå - ó Àãàòû Êðèñòè, Íàó è Êèíî áîëüøÀÿ ÷àñòü ïåñåí - ãîòèê-ðîê.
ÿ âîò êîãäà ïåðâûé ðàç Ñèñòåðç îô ìåðñè óñëûøàë...îíè ìíå ïîêàçàëèñü òàê íà ðàííèé Íàóòèëóñ ïîõîæè!Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Tyrant
Åñòü ó ìåíÿ ìï3 ÍÀÓ, òàê òàì íà ôîòêàõ Áóòóñîâ ïî ïðèêèäó è ìàêèÿæó âïîëíå íà ãîòà òÿíåòÈçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Tyrant
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Íó ïî÷åìó æå? Ïîñëóøàé íàïðèìåð "×åëîâåê áåç èìåíè"Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Tyrant
Íåò, íå ãîòèê-ðîê.Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî manyak
Êèíî, Ïèêíèê è Àãàòà Êðèñòè ïëîäû îòå÷åñòâåííîãî post-punk'à, íî íèêàêîãî îòíîøåíèÿ ê ãîòèêå íå èìåþò.
Íå çíàþ êàê ó êîðåéöåâ, íî Öîé òàê ïåë, ïîòîìó ÷òî ó íåãî áûëè ïðîáëåìû ñ çóáàìè. Ïîñìîòðè äàæå íà ôîòêàõ âèäíî, ÷òî ó íåãî íèæíÿÿ ÷åëþñòü íåìíîãî âïåðåäè âåðõíåé. Èç-çà ýòîãî òàêîé âîêàë. Äëÿ ñàìîãî ýòî íåäàâíî áûëî îòêðûòèå.Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Zubok
À íà ñ÷åò ãîòèê-ðîêà, òî ÍÀÓ, Àãàòà, Êèíî ñêîðåå âñåãî ãîòèê-ðîê ñîâåòñêîãî ðàçëèâà![]()
Ãðàíèöû ãîòèê-ðîêà, êàê æàíðà, ðàçìûòû è íå÷åòêè. The 69 Eyes - ãîòèê-ðîê, è X-mal Deutschland òîæå. ×òî îáúåäèíÿåò ýòè äâå ãðóïïû? À òîëüêî òî, ÷òî èõ ìóçûêà ïðèçíàííà â _ãîòè÷åñêîé_òóñîâêå êàê ñâîÿ è _ãîòû_ èõ ñëóøàþò.Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî manyak
Òàêèì îáðàçîì, ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî ìóçûêà ðîê-ãðóïïû ìîæåò ñ÷èòàòüñÿ ãîòèê-ðîêîì òîëüêî â òîì ñëóà÷å, åñëè áîëüøèíñòâî çäðàâîìûñëÿùèõ _ãîòîâ_ ìåñòíîé òóñîâêè ñ÷èòàþò åå çà "ñâîþ", ñëóøàþò åå è õîäÿò íà åå êîíöåðòû. Òî åñòü "ðóññêî-ðîêîâûõ" ìóçûêàíòîâ, êîòîðûå òâîðèëè òîãäà, êîãäà â íàøåé ñòðàíå åùå âîîáùå íå áûëî _ãîòèêè_ êàê òàêîâîé è _ãîòîâ_ êàê êëàññà, âðÿä ëè ìîæíî ñ÷èòàòü ãîòèê-ðîêåðàìè â ïîëíîì ñìûñëå ýòîãî ïîíÿòèÿ.
ÍÎ! ß ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî åñëè áû â òî âðåìÿ ó íàñ áûëà áû ðàçâèòàÿ ãîòè÷åñêàÿ êóëüòóðà, òî âñå ýòè ãðóïïû âïîëíå çàñëóæåííî ìîãëè áû èìåòü óñïåõ ó òîãäàøíåé ãîòè÷åñêîé àóäèòîðèè. Âñå ïðåäïîñûëêè äëÿ ýòîãî áûëè - è ìðà÷íàÿ âíåøíîñòü, è îòñòðàíåííûå äåïðåññèâíûå òåêñòû, è, ñàìîå ãëàâíîå, ñîîòâåòñòâóþùàÿ àòìîñôåðà.
Èñõîäÿ èç ýòîãî, ìîå ïåðñîíàëüíîå ìíåíèå: äà, âñå ýòè êîìàíäû ìîæíî óñëîâíî ñ÷èòàòü ãîòè÷åñêèì ðîêîì.
Ñàìûé ãîòèê-ðîêîâûé ãîòèê-ðîê - ó ÊÈÍÎ íà òðåõ ïîñëåäíèõ àëüáîìàõ. Ñèëüíî ðàçáàâëåííûé ïîëèòè÷åñêîé è ñîöèàëüíîé òåìàòèêîé è ïîòîìó "íàèìåíåå ãîòèê-ðîê", êàê ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ó ÍÀÓÒÈËÓÑÀ. Ñàìûé êðàñèâûé è ìåëîäè÷íûé, íî â òî æå âðåìÿ è ñàìûé ñâîåîáðàçíûé è íè íà ÷òî íå ïîõîæèé, âíå âñÿêîãî ñîìíåíèÿ, ÏÈÊÍÈÊ.
Íàâåðíîå, òàê.
Íåáîëüøîå çàìå÷àíèå: ñîöèàëüíî-ïîëèòè÷åñêèì ïðîáëåìàì ïîñâÿùåíà îò ñèëû äåñÿòàÿ ÷àñòü ëèðèêè ýòîé ãðóïïû.Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Den_Howitzer
...à âîîáùå-òî ÿ íå òàê äàâíî èíòåðåñîâàëñÿ ýòèì âîïðîñîì. È ïðîñòî âçÿë è îòîñëàë Ìèêó Ìåðñåðó äèñêè âñåõ ýòèõ ãðóïï, â ÷àñòíîñòè:
- ÊÈÍÎ "×åðíûé Àëüáîì"
- ÊÈÍÎ "Çâåçäà Ïî Èìåíè Ñîëíöå"
- ÊÈÍÎ "Ãðóïïà Êðîâè"
- ÀÃÀÒÀ ÊÐÈÑÒÈ "Îïèóì"
- ÀÃÀÒÀ ÊÐÈÑÒÈ "Ïîçîðíàÿ Çâåçäà"
- ÏÈÊÍÈÊ (êàêîé-òî òàì "áåñò îô", èçäàííûé íà Ìèñòåðèè íåäàâíî)
È Ìåðñåð êàê-òî ïðîõëàäíî îòíåññÿ êî âñåì ýòèì äèñêàì. Î ÷åì è íàïèñàë â ñâîåì ëàéâäæîðíàëå. Êàê íàéäó, ãäå - çàöèòèðóþ ñþäà.
(Mick Mercer - áðèòàíñêèé ïîïóëÿðèçàòîð ãîòè÷åñêîé ñóáêóëüòóðû â öåëîì è ãîòèê-ðîê â ÷àñòíîñòè, àâòîð êíèã "GOTHIC ROCK", "GOTHIC ROCK BLACK BOOK", è êîìïèëÿòîð íåñêîëüêèõ ìóçûêàëüíûõ "ýòàëîííûõ" ãîòèê-ðîêîâûõ ñáîðíèêîâ. Òàê ÷òî åãî ìíåíèå èìååò áîëüøîé âåñ)
Ìèê Ìåðñåð î "Ïîçîðíîé Çâåçäå" ÀÃÀÒÛ ÊÐÈÑÒÈ:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mickmercer/2004/03/08/
"AGHATA KRISTY
SHAMEFUL STAR
Extraphone
After Den Howitzer of Unholy Guests sent me these Russian CDs I have tried to get used to them by having them simmering gently in the background but I still have problems with the Russian singing, which is ornate, but orderly, never going into peaks of passion, which tends to hold this album back somewhat.
On the plus side, there’s the name. And the history. Apparently they were very popular during the mid-90’s but became addicted to drink and drugs and have only just been rebuilding their status, apart from a famed keyboard player Alex Kozlov who is now gone, and something of a cult hero, which doesn’t surprise me.
As Den has explained, there was no Goth underground so the bands never regarded themselves as anything more than rock bands, but had influences from bands like the S*s*e*s, Mission, Cure, Joy Division, and in this case perhaps a touch of Psychedelic Furs. They’re deeply melodic, keep within fairly economic structures and never tire you with boring repetition, but they seem to be very polite. Sound-wise, it’s unusual clear and airy, with a professional sound, as though being put forward for Eurovision. Everything is clipped and harmonious, but there’s some very good things buried within this record.
The opener is a loopy introduction what dicfert3cnes there are inb Russia. The bass it cute and lively throughout, the guitar thin and reedy but highly lively, and the vocals almost casual dramatic as though making droll observations. The rhythm is different, making sense out of a jumbled dance, and the guitar is sleek and nagingly mekorable.
Unfortunately the studio sound also makes the bass sound shit 80’s pop (think: Howard Jones, Go West), and the vocals a bit twee. Then there’s the strangeness. At times you wonder are they trying for some ska here, the way the guitar lifts against a keyboard riff. In ‘Orphan’ we have a song which is undeniably silly in its sound, but like an early Ants oddity, yet ‘Hysteric!’ sounds horribly like that Men In Hats song.
‘Prayer’ and ‘’Like On War’ are both curious, with gloopy keyboards, and a moodier, harsher vocal delivery, with more stirring guitar displays, there’s a touch of drums stepping up with guitars to let out some power in ‘Dzagi’, the title track is coyly conspiratorial , and the closer a r ‘n’ r guitar ballad which seems based on ‘Hello Darkness, my Old Friend’
More tomorrow, because while they are restrained what’s clear is that they write superb songs. They may not have that ability to connect and grip but they had style. It’s just somewhat unexpected and conventional."
Ìèê Ìåðñåð îá "Îïèóìå" Àãàòû Êðèñòè:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mickmercer/2004/03/09/
"AGHATA KRISTY
OPIUM
Ex
An album from 1995, with either an ironic or unfortunate title for the band whose rise was halted by various addictions, and it carries on from my review yesterday when I raised their peculiarities.
Once again they sound more concerned that everything is delivered with the utmost clarity than to invest their songs with any wild energy or commitment, just very spruce playing and precise diction, making it rather cold. There are still some very good, albeit somewhat strange (to these ears) songs, with occasional surprises, and two very distinctive musicians, on guitar and keyboards. The guitar is quite simple, with virtually no effects, and often very thing but highly mobile in contributions while the old-fashioned synth or keyboards are being handled by someone who knows how to bring a new infusion to old sounds.
There’s no point analysing it greatly, because you’ll either pop to their website or you won’t, but I must say that that mad yelping to a go-go beat in ‘Eternal Love’ is infectious, ‘Abordage’ shows they can be abrasive, as the synth is pulsing, and ‘Black Moon; is like something from the annals of Dr Who, having a succulent bass, cavorting splendidly. ‘Fairy Taiga’ is 60’s spy music with Shadows-like guitar and the star song is ‘Transylvania’ with a great tone to it all, spaghetti western guitar and a busy dance pulse in the middle, so once again the various elements are all there. It’s just making sense of any of it which is difficult.
More spaghetti guitar enlivens ‘Heterosexualist’ but, unfortunately, so does a syndrum and grotesque keyboard runs, while ‘Opium For Nobody’ is like a sour take of New Romantic hallmarks.
All very strange."
À âîò, ÷òî ñêàçàë Ìåðñåð î òðåõ àëüáîìàõ ÊÈÍÎ ñðàçó:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mickmercer/2004/03/11/
"KINO
THREE ALBUMS
I’m not bothering to review these records by Kino in any depth. Although Den Howitzer of Unholy Guests makes it clear that they were the most successful credible Russian rock band of the 90’s they’re also remarkably tepid half the time, so there’s just no need to go there. The ‘Blood Group’ album (1988) is better than the other Russian records I’ve recently reviewed in this journal, showing a band who didn’t want to sound jaunty all the time, utilising steady beats and pert, wriggling tunes, with quite a sorrowful but soothing voice, and that’s what matters here. Viktor Tsoy was their star performer, but after the ‘Star Called Sun’ album showed more promise they went all fluffy with the ‘Black Album’, by which time Tsoy had died in a road accident It seems he went on to be revered as their Ian Curtis. Naturally there is far too much lost in translation and cultural references within this music for me to make any real pronouncements. What you can discern in Kino’s music is a mood for introspection, but you can’t find one key factor essential to all great bands. Not only do these bands fail to treat their instruments as forces for good (or bad), they also create no real tension in their sounds.
The bands he sent me the CDs represent what is seen as the most laudable ‘names’ of the past few years and they’re not, frankly, fit to lick Unholy Guests’ boots when it comes to energy and instant allure."
...ïðî ÏÈÊÍÈÊ Ìåðñåð âîîáùå óìîë÷àë. Òàê ÷òî âîò òàê. Ïî õîäó, ãîòèêè â ýòèõ áàíäàõ îí íå íàøåë íè ãðàììà.
Íî íè÷åãî. ß íà äíÿõ ñîáèðàþñü âûñëàòü åìó åùå ÷òî-íèáóäü, áëàãî, äèñêè ó íàñ äåøåâûå. Äóìàþ, ïîñëàòü åìó ÍÀÓÒÈËÓÑ è... ÃÐÀÆÄÀÍÑÊÓÞ ÎÁÎÐÎÍÓ. Ïóñòü åãî ìó÷àåòñÿ
(ñîððè, çà òî, ÷òî òàê ìíîãî íàôëóäèë, íî ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî ýòî äîëæíî áûòü èíòåðåñíî)
à êàê æå "Close the Door Behind Me" èëè "Mother, We All Went Mad"? Âïîëíå ãàòèøíû
2 Den
Íó êàê æå òàê? Êàê ýòî íåò ãðàíèö ãîòèê-ðîêà?Òû íå ïðàâ! =) Åñòü îíè, ïðè÷åì î÷åíü ÷åòêèå, ïðîñòî åñòü ìíîãî ñàáæàíðîâ ãîòèê-ðîêà, ñòèëþ óæå 25 ëåò, è çà ýòî âðåìÿ îí ðàçâèâàëñÿ. Ñêàæåì, X-mal Deutschland èãðàåò ðàííèé ïîñò-ïàíêîâûé ãîòèê-ðîê, à The 69 eyes - óòÿæåëåííûé è áîëåå "ðîêîâûé" âàðèàíò êëàññè÷åñêîãî ãîòèê-ðîêà. À ñâÿçü ìåæäó ýòèìè äâóìÿ ãðóïïàìè õîòÿ áû â âèäå The Cult, êîòîðûå â ñâîåì áîëåå "ðîêîâîì" òâîð÷åñòâå ïîâëèÿëè íà The 69 eyes, à íà çàðå êàðüåðû, â áûòíîñòü Southern death cult èãðàëè ðàííèé ïîñò-ïàíêîâûé ãîòèê-ðîê, âûñòóïàÿ â êëóáàõ òèïà Batcave, ñêàæåì â áóêëåòå äèñêà Skeletal family òàê è íàïèñàíî, ÷òî "Along with the Sisters of mercy and Southetn death cult, the Skeletal family led the charge of the Gothic punk brigade of the early 1980's.", à Skeletal family âïîëíå ñðàâíèìû ñ òåìè æå X-mal Deutschland.
Ïî ïîâîäó ÷åëþñòè Öîÿ. Ýòî ìîæåò ñêàçàòüñÿ íà ïðîèçíåñåíèèè çâóêîâ, íî íå íà ïåíèè è ãîëîñå. Âû, íàâåðíîå, ìàëî ñëûøàëè, êàê ïîþò êàçàõè, êîðåéöû, êîèõ â Ñðåäíåé Àçèè ìíîãî. Î÷åíü ìíîãèå èìåííî òàê ãðóáîâàòî ïîþò. Åñëè ïîñëóøàåòå åùå è òóâèíöåâ, ìîíãîëîâ, áóðÿòîâ, òî ïîéìåòå, ÷òî òàêîé òåìáð ãîëîñà õàðàêòåðåí äëÿ ìîíãîëîèäíîé ðàñû.
Íó ÿ æ ãîâîðèë, ÷òî "Ãðóïïà êðîâè" ñàìûé ãîò-ðîêîâûé àëüáîì! ß æå ãîâîðèë! Âîò åãî Ìåðñåð è âûäåëèë. Îäíàêî ÿ íå çàìåòèë, ÷òî îí âîîáùå ïîïûòàëñÿ â ðåöåíçèè íà "Êèíî" êëèøå ðàçâåøèâàòü. Ñêàçàë ïðîñòî, ÷òî äóìàåò.  "Ãðóïïå êðîâè" âîîáùå ìíîãî èíòåðåñíûõ âåùåé. Îí íà 90% ñîñòîèò èç ãîò-ðîêà. ß òóò î÷åðåäíîé ðàç ïåðåñëóøèâàë åãî è îáðàòèë âíèìàíèå íà ôèíàëüíûé ïðîèãðûø çàãëàâíîé ïåñíè "Ãðóïïà êðîâè". Clan Of Xymox ðàííèé ÷óòü-÷óòü íå íàïîìèíàåò, à? Èìåííî òîò ìîìåíò, êîãäà ñèíòåçàòîðíûé ôîí ïîÿâëÿåòñÿ è ïðîùàëüíî èãðàåò ãèòàðêà íà ôîíå ýëåêòðîííîãî óäàðíèêà. Ïîñëóøàéòå. À äàâàéòå "Êèíî" åùå è â ñèíò-ãîò ïðè÷èñëèì? ãû-ãû-ãû :)
Çà ðåöåíçèè ñïàñèáî,èíòåðåñíî ïî÷èòàòü.Èçíà÷àëüíî îïóáëèêîâàíî Den_Howitzer
Íî òû çíàåøü åñëè âûñûëàòü èíîñòðàíöó äèñêè òàêèõ èñïîëíèòåëåé íàäî ýòî äåëàòü êàê ìèíèìóì ñ ïåðåâîäîì âñåõ ïåñåí. Âåäü íå ñåêðåò, ÷òî ñèëà òâîð÷åñòâà ýòèõ èñïîëíèòåëåé íå â ìóçûêè, à èìåííî â òåêñòàõ (îñîáåííîñòü ñîâåöêîãî "ðîêà").
ÃÎ ïîñûëàòü íå ñîâåòóþÓæ ñèøêîì ýòî ðóññêîå ÿâëåíèå (Âåðíåå äàæå ñîâåñòêîå), òóò äàæå îäíèì ïåðåâîäîì ñòèõîâ íå îáîéäåøüñÿ.